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Topic: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

I have a male and a female three-toed box turtle that I found in my yard. The female has laid some eggs. As far as I know, it is not illegal to capture wild three-toed box turtles. It is illegal to buy or sell any native reptiles in Arkansas. My question is if I can sell the captive-bred babies of the turtles. As long as I didn't capture the babies from the wild, right?

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Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

Well the laws are not written very clearly. You probably will need a "Wildlife Breeders Permit" to sell your CB boxies.  Many of us have wanted these laws changed for quite some time or atleast written clearly. I'm going to defer this question to Kory, but I'll leave a couple of links.

http://www.agfc.com/species/pages/speci … dlife.aspx

http://www.uappeal.org/arkansas.html

I am the Earth. Please stop hurting me. I want us to once again live in harmony. As One. Remember! Live with heart...we need to be in balance with nature!

3 (edited by caro 2017-04-30 12:45 am)

Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

I would guess not O.K., since under "wildlife pets" it says:  "Animals kept as pets must be kept in separate pens by sex or the males must be neutered to prevent reproduction."

If they don't want you breeding them, they probably don't want you to sell them either.  But I'm not positive & personally, I'd call the nearest G & F office to ask, rather than
trying to correctly interpret all those regs.  Maybe it's ok with a breeding permit, as Patrick said, but the permit might cost more than you'd recoup anyway.

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Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

How would this apply to Captive Bred box turtles? Must they be kept in separate caging by sex? When you do call also please politely suggest that the way everything is written is somewhat confusing. Perhaps if enough ask for clarity they will rewrite these laws.

I am the Earth. Please stop hurting me. I want us to once again live in harmony. As One. Remember! Live with heart...we need to be in balance with nature!

5 (edited by caro 2017-04-30 04:40 pm)

Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

Yes, I agree that it IS confusing & needs re-written and clarified.  Plus, it would save them time on the phone or over the counter...my impression is that they are understaffed.

My interpretation (in my previous post) is the result of living in another state (CA) with better clarity of such rules.  There, they did NOT want people to breed (or sell) the native
species, with only 3 exceptions, where they required a paid-for breeding permit (which I had) plus an extensive paper-trail of all offspring.  Part of the concern is that native species
produced in captivity will end up being released to the wild, taking with them diseases known only among captive & non-native animals...& they have a good point, IMO...none of
us wants our native wildlife to be harmed or possibly decimated in that way. 

To your question, Patrick, I'd assume that any that are old enough to breed would have to be kept in separate enclosures...& best to error on the side of caution. 
(some creatures breed way before we expect them to, & often to their detriment)

AJ- Being allowed to keep a few is one thing...but breeding or selling them is quite another.  The problem is that no one can tell by looking that the animal you are selling is a
captive-bred specimen (& too young to have the typical 'battle scars' associated with wild-caught animals), or ones that you simply picked up & are trying to make a buck off of.
Poaching is another way our wildlife can disappear, so I still think the answer is "no" but if you get an answer from G & F, please do share it with us...thanks.

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Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

caro wrote:

Maybe it's ok with a breeding permit, as Patrick said, but the permit might cost more than you'd recoup anyway.

Actually, this website is selling one hatchling for $99.99
http://www.backwaterreptiles.com/turtle … -sale.html

The breeding permit is $50, so even if didn't sell them for quite that much, I'd probably pay off the permit.

I don't think I'm going to call G & F. If I did and they told tell me it was illegal, than I'd actually be morally obligated not to sell them. If they didn't spell out the law well, then they won't enforce it well either.

Thanks for the info and advice. Once the eggs hatch, I'll probably buy a permit and try to sell the hatchlings in the classifieds. How much do you think I could sell one for?

7 (edited by caro 2017-04-30 09:31 pm)

Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

Before you decide to emulate Backwater Reptiles, you might check out their reputation on faunaclassifieds.com (BOI threads, search the name).

I don't know about G & F laws, but generally speaking, as the saying goes "ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law", ie. it's up to you to know & make sure.

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Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

caro wrote:

Before you decide to emulate Backwater Reptiles, you might check out their reputation on faunaclassifieds.com (BOI threads, search the name).

Yes please do check out faunaclassifieds. They are an excellent source for reviews. I've seen some things on Backwater that are negative. Use caution...

I am the Earth. Please stop hurting me. I want us to once again live in harmony. As One. Remember! Live with heart...we need to be in balance with nature!

9 (edited by caro 2017-05-01 12:38 pm)

Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

Patrick wrote:

... I've seen some things on Backwater that are negative. Use caution.

Exactly what I was driving at.  Not sure what state they're in but many negative reviews on them...& my point being that they may also be breaking laws.

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Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

caro wrote:
Patrick wrote:

... I've seen some things on Backwater that are negative. Use caution.

Exactly what I was driving at.  Not sure what state they're in but many negative reviews on them...& my point being that they may also be breaking laws.


Well, unless you are Marty Stouffer, apparently! wink

I am the Earth. Please stop hurting me. I want us to once again live in harmony. As One. Remember! Live with heart...we need to be in balance with nature!

11 (edited by caro 2017-05-01 08:53 pm)

Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

Huh???  Sorry, please translate that, Patrick?

12 (edited by caro 2017-05-02 04:16 pm)

Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

So back to the original question, the answer I just got for you (AJ) from AR Game & Fish is a definite "NO"...you cannot sell them.  Period.

You would FIRST need to qualify for the breeding permit (IF) it exists for this species...and that involves an application (prior to breeding) AND
a G & F officer coming to your premises to make sure that all is being done correctly with proper care & the right amount of space for the turtles.
You don't just run down to their office and "buy a permit" to cover your tracks after you produce them.

Any sales you do without this process are totally illegal...you (& I quote) "are not allowed to make money off wildlife in the state of Arkansas".

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Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

Hey Aj, I am interested in buying one of your three to box turtles, do u still have any left

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Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

ae205511 wrote:

Hey Aj, I am interested in buying one of your three to box turtles, do u still have any left

I'm sorry but if you read above we cannot condone the selling of these here. Be careful my friends we don't want anyone getting in trouble and this certainly isn't a place we want people breaking laws. We must work to change them first. I don't want to sound like an _ _ _ but as a moderator I have to take this stance. I actually would like to start a movement on changing these more extreme and useless laws.

I am the Earth. Please stop hurting me. I want us to once again live in harmony. As One. Remember! Live with heart...we need to be in balance with nature!

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Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

caro wrote:

Huh???  Sorry, please translate that, Patrick?


Hahaha look at their homepage. Top Middle. They've made sure it's the first thing you see. You'll see what I'm talking about...

EDIT: I just realized this is only for the computer version of the site. If you view on mobile phone you have to scroll down. It's smaller in the middle.

I am the Earth. Please stop hurting me. I want us to once again live in harmony. As One. Remember! Live with heart...we need to be in balance with nature!

16 (edited by caro 2017-05-31 11:59 am)

Re: Is it legal to sell captive-bred babies?

Oh, and he's even legendary, who am I to doubt!?   hahahahaha!  (thanks Patrick, I needed that-)