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Topic: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

Went out Friday afternoon to a spot north of Van Buren and found a small WDB. Habitat was typical rattlesnake habitat: steep, rocky, south-facing hillside.

Not one of the 6' beauties that I know are up there, but a WDB nonetheless. Measures 23.5" from snout to vent with another 4" worth of tail and rattles past the vent.

http://thesloanfamily.us/images/herps/snakes/Crotalus/Atrox/c_atrox-7.jpg

http://thesloanfamily.us/images/herps/snakes/Crotalus/Atrox/c_atrox-8.jpg

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

WHOOO!!! Great job!!

Be honest Jeremy...how many times did you tube it? lol


Beautiful find!

-Ryan

Mark 10:27

"Sympathy is no substitute for action." -  David Livingstone

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

Awesome atrox!  What time of day did you find it?

Van

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

That's enough for a road trip.

Lindsay

"In our every deliberation, we must consider the impact of our decisions on the next seven generations."  From the Great Law of the Iroquois Confederacy

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

Good job!

Tom Eason

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

Your the man Hullk. I wish I was there. I went out to look for Pymys not as much as luck as you.


Glenn

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

Great job!

Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

very nice

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

Van wrote:

Awesome atrox!  What time of day did you find it?

Van

 

I found it around 3:30 in the afternoon. It wasn't really that sunny on Friday afternoon around Van Buren, just cloudy with an air temp of around 80 degrees. The hillside was steep, kind of like the "Slope of Death" steep that the large WDB near Moutainburg was on (for those of you that are familiar with that one). The interesting part was that it wasn't just an open rock slope. There was a fairly substantial canopy, even without the leaves on the trees yet. Additionally, there was some amount of plant growth around the rocks. All this was a little odd to me as I'm used to finding Timbers on somewhat barren talus slopes that get a lot of direct sunlight.

Anyways, I flipped a medium sized flat rock and it was coiled nicely underneath. The moment I flipped the rock it darted under a much larger rock. I knew immediately what it was...there's no mistaking that coon-tail banding. I flipped the larger rock over and this time it didn't crawl off. Instead, it assumed the classic WDB standing-S defensive posture.

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

Great job Jeremy!  I think you will find that a Western Diamondback will prefer brush to rock in most instances.  It seems their favorite place is coiled under brush or a bush.  I used to think that the smaller ones came out first and then the larger ones, but after the last two years I'm starting to think just the opposite.  It's funny how you think you know just about everything and with a little more experience you will change your mind.  Anyway, great job.  At least you have found them in Arkansas, I can throw a rock and hit Arkansas from my spot, but have yet not found one exactly in Arkansas.  Within a couple years I believe we can pinpoint a spot in the mountains between Fayetteville and I40 that will produce a large den.  Keep up the good work, if you get a chance next time please take some habitat shots. Great job, great job, great job.  The better a man does his job, the easier he makes it look!

Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

I know some ideal places, but last year I got a late start on the area, and I haven't been able to get back up there this year to look..Hopefully in the next week or two I can hit my spots.. I just KNOW there's something there, I've had too many reports of that area from people who live there, and the descriptions are "coon tail rattler" or "diamondback" every time.

Thats a great find!
Incidentally I'm always up for herp partners, our spots or yours..LOL  big_smile

I'm about to have an abruptly.

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

You can really tell from the new pictures...he's just a wee little guy, ain't he?  But hey, babies are GOOD!  Logical inferences:

1) At least 2 other bigger ones are out there, too!
2) At least some other babies are out there, too!

Viability of a population, my friend, that's what babies usually indicate.

Kory Roberts: Email | Facebook | Flickr | Last.fm | YouTube

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

Van and I were trying to guess its age. Van thinks it is starting at least its 4th year of life. I think probably at least a little more. So we will say that we think it is starting between its 4th - 6th year of life. Not that young and not that old.

I had to say something about this:

http://www.herpsofarkansas.com/gallery/14736-2/579485-R2-01-24_026.jpg

So cute and I am talking about the snake. What a grin on the big guys face. You think he just won the lottery.

Glennnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

hey great find man that is awesome, i have had no luck over the weekend just some ringnecks and a water snake.

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

ksuglennj wrote:

Van and I were trying to guess its age. Van thinks it is starting at least its 4th year of life. I think probably at least a little more. So we will say that we think it is starting between its 4th - 6th year of life. Not that young and not that old.

 

I was thinking something along those lines, though I hadn't quite got to the point of breaking it down year-by-year.  It just struck me that it had a long rattle string for such a little snake.  I can't quite make up my mind whether that last segment is a button or not; kinda looks sans button to me.  Either way, sloooow growth!  Maybe someone knows the estimated minimal size for a breeding adult (male/female)?

Kory Roberts: Email | Facebook | Flickr | Last.fm | YouTube

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

I'm thinking I might revise my opinion a little...

Choice 1 (young side):
[uFall of Year 1[/u
Born (button)
1st shed (button + 1)
[uYear 2[/u
2nd shed (button + 2)
3rd shed (button + 3)
[uYear 3[/u
4th shed (button + 4)
5th shed ? (button + 5...maybe button and/or seg. 1 breaks off)
[uSpring of Year 4[/u
FOUND!

Choice 2 (old side):
[uFall of Year 1[/u
Born (button)
1st shed (button + 1)
[uYear 2[/u
2nd shed (button + 2)
[uYear 3[/u
3rd shed (button + 3)
[uYear 4[/u
4th shed (button + 4)
[uYear 5[/u
5th shed ? (button + 5...maybe button and seg. 1 breaks off)
[uSpring of Year 6[/u
FOUND!

Puts it likely as 2 1/2 - 4 1/2.  While three sheds in a season is unlikely, it is possible and could push the age down to 1 1/2.  I'm now thinking 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 (factoring in the size as well) is my best guess.

Kory Roberts: Email | Facebook | Flickr | Last.fm | YouTube

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

I'm with Kory, this snake appears to be older than the ones we find at my spot.  Look in the WDB gallery.  We found a snake approximately the same size 2-3 years ago and one this year about the same size, both had fewer segments.  It seems that they grow larger in less time just a few miles south.  Or maybe this one lives in an area where prey is not as plentyful.  Considering the size of the rattle string, I would guess 2-3 years.  The best part is that Kory is also correct about there being at least two more in the area.  Young snakes are always a good sign.  I'm thinking that the size and condition of this one means that they are not going to be real plentyful in this particular area though.  After all of this, I would still say--great job Jeremy!  This is the first one I have heard of north of the river.  Always thought they were there and now I'm ready to start searching north of the river once again.

Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

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Re: Found: Western Diamondback north of Arkansas River

ksuglennj wrote:

What a grin on the big guys face. You think he just won the lottery.

   

You can bet there was a little happy dance done on the side of that mountain!  big_smile