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Topic: Proposed Taxonomic Updates for the Website

Normally, I put forth a bit of work on the website and such during my winter break.  In anticipation, I thought I would offer some proposed taxonomic updates for feedback and consideration:

CURRENT STATUS ... SUGGESTED UPDATE

Lampropeltis getula holbrooki ... Lampropeltis holbrooki
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=166

Pantherophis obsoletus ... Scotophis obsoletus
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=128

Pantherophis spiloides ... Scotophis spiloides
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=133

Chelydra serpentina serpentina ... Chelydra serpentina
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=691

Chrysemys picta ... Add as hypothetical.
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=695

Bufo americanus ... Anaxyrus americanus
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1066

Bufo fowleri ... Anaxyrus fowleri
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1081

Bufo nebulifer ... Incilius nebulifer; Set to hypothetical.
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1065

Bufo woodhousii ... Anaxyrus woodhousii
Rocky Mountain Toad ... Woodhouse's Toad
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1092

Acris crepitans crepitans ... Acris blanchardi
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1056

Acris crepitans ... Add as hypothetical.
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1055

Acris gryllus gryllus ... Add as hypothetical.
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1059

Gray Treefrog ... Eastern Gray Treefrog
   
Upland Chorus Frog (Pseudacris feriarum) ... Cajun Chorus Frog (Pseudacris fouquettei)
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1126

Pseudacris feriarum ... Add as hypothetical.
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1133

Pseudacris maculata ... Add as hypothetical.
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1205

Pseudacris triseriata ... Remove.

Pseudacris streckeri ... Remove subspecies designation.

Rana areolata ... Lithobates areolatus
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1145

Rana blairi ... Lithobates blairi
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1152

Lithobates blairi ... Set to hypothetical.

Rana catesbeiana ... Lithobates catesbeianus
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1159

Rana clamitans ... Lithobates clamitans
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1161

Rana palustris ... Lithobates palustris
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1171

Rana sphenocephala utricularius ... Lithobates sphenocephalus utricularius
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1175
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=1177

Rana sylvatica ... Lithobates sylvaticus

Hyla squirella ... Add as hypothetical.

Hyla gratiosa ... Add as hypothetical.

Anaxyrus punctatus ... Add as hypothetical.

Pseudacris clarkii ... Add as hypothetical.

Dwarf Salamander ... Coastal Plain Dwarf Salamander
    http://www.cnah.org/comments.asp?id=912

Plethodon kisatchie ... Remove. (Specimens from this locality genetically key to P. albagula.)

Plethodon sequoyah ... Set to hypothetical.

Kory Roberts: Email | Facebook | Flickr | Last.fm | YouTube

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Re: Proposed Taxonomic Updates for the Website

Thought I would add my 2 cents. I never use the CNAH list. I typically stick with SSAR and adjust according to research I read.

Josh Engelbert
Copan, OK

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Re: Proposed Taxonomic Updates for the Website

OkieHerper wrote:

Thought I would add my 2 cents. I never use the CNAH list. I typically stick with SSAR and adjust according to research I read.

That's fine, but what's the argument for the website.

Kory Roberts: Email | Facebook | Flickr | Last.fm | YouTube

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Re: Proposed Taxonomic Updates for the Website

I'm with Josh. What do you mean by arguement for the website? For its existance? Or their list?

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Re: Proposed Taxonomic Updates for the Website

Sorry let me clarify a little. If you choose to continue using the CNAH list, what you have above sounds fine. However, I personally would prefer if we used the SSAR list (maybe with a few changes here and there). It's really not a huge deal which you choose to use, but if you are asking for opinions, you know I'm always glad to give them,  big_smile .

Josh Engelbert
Copan, OK

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Re: Proposed Taxonomic Updates for the Website

ksuglennj wrote:

What do you mean by argument for the website?

The argument for basing the species list off SSAR.

I could justify either direction, CNAH or SSAR, but it seems to make sense to stick with one as the BASIS.  I will say that a few years back the website did follow SSAR more so, but the SSAR list got so ridiculously out-of-date--and for a few other reasons--a switch was made to CNAH.  It was a pain in the butt then, so if people want it switched back they had better *really* want it...accompanied by a solid argument for why I should invest my time to it.

Here are some of my quick thoughts...

* AR herp book, G&F snake booklet, and Conant/Collins follow CNAH more closely and these are likely other resources people would utilize.
* OK herp book and 2nd Ed. MO herp book follow SSAR more closely, so there may be some momentum for newer publications.
* SSAR has not been very timely in updating their list.
* SSAR is more officially recognized by herp groups.
* SSAR applies some conventions to common names that are hard for me to swallow..."Western Diamond-backed Rattlesnake", etc.
* Website mostly uses CNAH and would take some significant investment to switch it to SSAR.

If it matters, I was intending to focus on these during winter break:
* AHS logo.
* New/Updated range maps / mapping system (at least set a framework).
* Minor updates to taxonomy (as proposed above).
* 2010 PDF Species Lists
* Upgrade programs to latest versions.

If you throw in major revisions to taxonomy, less of the rest gets done.  Just so you know.

Kory Roberts: Email | Facebook | Flickr | Last.fm | YouTube

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Re: Proposed Taxonomic Updates for the Website

This is the biggy for SSAR: "* SSAR is more officially recognized by herp groups."

For the most part they are not that different. I do not like the genera change for these:
Pantherophis obsoletus ... Scotophis obsoletus
Pantherophis spiloides ... Scotophis spiloides

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Re: Proposed Taxonomic Updates for the Website

Glenn pretty much hit the nail on the head. It seems like to me that the biggest flaw in the CNAH is that they seem a little too quick to update. Instead of waiting for a significant amount of time for the research to be critiqued, they just update the list. I don't have enough of an argument to warrant you taking that much time to rework the site. I wish I had time to go through both lists and help you decide which names to include on the site. So feel free to use what you prefer and maybe some day we can work through the list and alter the ones we really don't agree with (like the examples above).

Josh Engelbert
Copan, OK

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Re: Proposed Taxonomic Updates for the Website

I'm way behind. I still say elaphe.  big_smile

Ever wonder why conservatives are called the right and liberals are called the left?

Ecclesiates 10:2

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Re: Proposed Taxonomic Updates for the Website

OK, here are some draft species lists for consideration:

2010 Amphibian List Draft (PDF)
2010 Reptile List Draft (PDF)

The lists now adhere to SSAR 6th Ed. 2008 with the following exceptions:

Masticophis is retained for Coachwhip.
Kingsnakes -> Lampropeltis holbrooki, Lampropeltis nigra (hypo), Lampropeltis elapsoides (hypo)
Broad Banded Watersnake -> Broad-banded Watersnake (I think this is just a typo)
Chelydra serpentina serpentina -> Chelydra serpentina
Ollotis nebulifer -> Incilius nebulifer
Acris crepitans -> Acris blanchardi, Acris crepitans (hypo), Acris gryllus (hypo)
Chorus Frogs -> Pseudacris fouquettei, Pseudacris feriarum (hypo), Pseudacris maculata (hypo)

Unfortunately, there is no help in the SSAR document on families or higher.  Thoughts?

Also, look closely at the lists of hypotheticals as these have changed somewhat.

I have a reptile I'm leaning toward for that cover, but I'll take suggestions for either amphibian or reptile covers.

Please offer feedback, good or bad, within the next week or so.

Kory Roberts: Email | Facebook | Flickr | Last.fm | YouTube